tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25740524.post8837278730211473489..comments2024-03-11T13:16:19.098-04:00Comments on Ad Orientem: Rome speaks on "other churches"Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25740524.post-19174973161808389922007-09-06T17:28:00.000-04:002007-09-06T17:28:00.000-04:00Blessed Ad Orientem,As a former Protestant(Luthera...Blessed Ad Orientem,<BR/><BR/>As a former Protestant(Lutheran) I sense the *grave and injurious offense* that B16 has committed against the Protestants and causing them to huff and puff. True, some Orthodox do say some pretty caustic things about the RC Church.<BR/><BR/>This too shall pass away as another *Tempest in a Samovar*.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07071972893071898985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25740524.post-26507137460903150162007-09-06T17:04:00.000-04:002007-09-06T17:04:00.000-04:00I think what you termed invective is fairly mild c...I think what you termed invective is fairly mild compared to what many Orthodox say about the Roman Catholic Church. That said it was simply a statement of position. If they did not think we were wrong on at least some level then they would be Orthodox. If not for the amusing reaction from so many Protestants the whole thing would have been worth a very large yaaawwwnnn.John (Ad Orientem)https://www.blogger.com/profile/14329907942477160166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25740524.post-65717000150625437712007-09-06T16:59:00.000-04:002007-09-06T16:59:00.000-04:00I find it odd that B16, wanting to put the Roman H...I find it odd that B16, wanting to put the Roman House in order, needs to hurl invectives such as *The Orthodox Church is defective*. It strikes me as a latent form of passive-aggressivity. No, I'm not offended - just flabbergasted.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07071972893071898985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25740524.post-24059170270269737702007-07-15T13:29:00.000-04:002007-07-15T13:29:00.000-04:00It seems that most Orthodox are not remotely offen...It seems that most Orthodox are not remotely offended, while, as you said, the Protestants huff and puff. <BR/><BR/>And one <A HREF="http://jesuscreed.org" REL="nofollow">Protestant blogger</A> noted, after about 100 comments, that most of the Protestant objectors had hardly begun to engage with RC (or Orthodox) ecclesiology, apart from making ex cathedra pronouncements that they were wrong.Steve Hayeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11283123400540587033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25740524.post-41706234032242808622007-07-11T12:24:00.000-04:002007-07-11T12:24:00.000-04:00Not sure what the point of Francis's post is. It's...Not sure what the point of Francis's post is. It's like he just went into his anti-Catholic closet and pulled out some dog bones, terminology of East and West that didn't even exist at the time, and identifying ecumenical council declarations as "custom."Byzantine, TXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17845681957622343484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25740524.post-56052007944328417052007-07-11T11:30:00.000-04:002007-07-11T11:30:00.000-04:00I can only say that I am heartened by this post. B...I can only say that I am heartened by this post. Both East and West claim that they are a church in fullness, not incomplete or defective. The document, while unhelpful in the short term, provides clear doctrine with a minimum of verbiage (which often clouds the meaning of declarations for the laity) that one can easily reference. <BR/><BR/>I hold a naive, American hope that with shirt sleeves rolled up and enough people in a room together the division of lungs can be healed. <BR/><BR/>This might sound trite, but...<BR/><BR/>Nothing stands against the power of the Holy Spirit. Old hate borne of politics and bigotry, tooth for a tooth mentality for things done a thousand years ago, and an unwillingness to resolve disputes for fear of a loss of position, all shrink when exposed to Its light. <BR/><BR/>We're trying to build a kingdom here, but the patriarchs of the Church are its servants not its king. There is only one king and none of us is He.Byzantine, TXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17845681957622343484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25740524.post-28847603085069976452007-07-11T09:43:00.000-04:002007-07-11T09:43:00.000-04:00Seems to me the claim of the Bishop of Rome a.k.a....Seems to me the claim of the Bishop of Rome a.k.a. "pope" is pretentious and unwarranted. The Greek-speaking Eastern church was established before the Latin-speaking Western church, and the separation of the two was a secession by Rome from orthodoxy.<BR/><BR/>The followers of Jesus were first called "Christians" not at Rome but at Antioch. <BR/><BR/>The Roman claim that Peter was there is not verifiable, and the bones found in Rome and alleged to be Peter's remains have been proved to be just animal bones. And even if Peter really did set up the church at Rome, that was only after he set up the church at Antioch.<BR/><BR/>The alleged primacy claimed by the Bishop of Rome is not based on any apostolic assignment of authority but is just based on custom. This one diocese remained aloof from the disputes wracking other dioceses and so became accepted as a neutral arbiter. The Roman Church has without evidence inflated that position into a claim of primacy which cannot be supported by the facts.Francishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08229059771891072991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25740524.post-43205623499689063372007-07-10T18:07:00.000-04:002007-07-10T18:07:00.000-04:00John,I too am glad for Rome to clearly define hers...John,<BR/><BR/>I too am glad for Rome to clearly define herself.<BR/>Bothersome to me personally is oftentimes in conversation with RC's, unstated(but assumed) premises are utilized in the talks between our two communions. Many a well meaning RC, engaging us Orthodox in dialogue, often quickly become exassperated when they realize we don't concede to Rome's concessions to us as "Sister" Churches or the "Two-lung theory" which our RC friends bring to the table.<BR/>I think it much healthier(and sane) to acknowledge how different we really are and I believe that from an honest appraisal(on both sides) as to what each believes, we stand on much more solid ground.<BR/>It is a real hindrance, I believe, to often use much of the same terminology but to pack such different meaning into the terms so that what seems to be a no-brainer conversation often if not always gets lost in tangents with no real understanding ever being accomplished.<BR/>To clearly define oneself is a virtue insofar as to not leave false impressions as to what motives are.<BR/>Rome is Rome. She believes that unless a church is in communion with her, such a church lacks something.<BR/>We Orthodox believe that in actuality, Rome in existing ontologically as she does, lacks fullness. <BR/> But again, an endless debate can begin just on my use of the word "fullness". It means onething to me and another to an RC. Clearly defined positions are much more conducive to reach such understandings.<BR/>And at the end of clearly stated viewpoints, I still have the option of remaining an Orthodox and the RC remaining as such. No foul. Each of us must consult our conscience and one day answer to Him based(among other things) on how much light we received and what we did with that light.<BR/>These are just some of my thoughts.Sophocleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07923381271179811989noreply@blogger.com