May God grant him and his family many many years!
AXIOS! AXIOS! AXIOS!
Hat Tip: Owen White
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Saturday, June 11, 2011
AXIOS!
To Father Al Kimel (aka the Pontificator) who is to be ordained tomorrow, the Feast of Pentecost, as a priest in the Orthodox Western Rite under the jurisdiction of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia. This appears to be the culmination of a very long journey from the wreckage of the Episcopal Church (via Rome) to Holy Orthodoxy. I wish him and his family every joy on this most special day.
May God grant him and his family many many years!
AXIOS! AXIOS! AXIOS!
Hat Tip: Owen White
May God grant him and his family many many years!
AXIOS! AXIOS! AXIOS!
Hat Tip: Owen White
He will make a fine Orthodox priest. Axios!
ReplyDeleteI'm delighted and rejoice with him. I'm one of the many who have followed his journey for the past decade.
Wow! What wonderful news! I pray for God's richest blessing on his ministry.
ReplyDeleteThe old Pontifications blog -- contrary to the fears of some people that it is irretrievably lost -- is still accessible sans the comments:
ReplyDeletehttp://web.archive.org/web/20070514024631/http://catholica.pontifications.net/
My that is a long journey. I remember way back in the day trying to convince him to stay in the Anglican church or else go to the East (I have entrenched doubts about the RCC) Of course his mind was made up so it did little good. Then he went silent and everyone missed him.
ReplyDeleteI still see him around StandFirm once in a while. I had no idea that he was considering Orthodoxy. Good for him. I pray that he finds peace there.
--StayinAnglican
PS. I did not mean for my tone to be one of "I told you so" above (I realized too late that it could be read that way). I know how hard these decisions can be and I never faulted Father Kimmel for following his conscience. I just meant to state the facts not rub it in. I was trying to talk him out of a decision already made which is a hard thing to do in any case.
ReplyDeleteGod's blessings on Father Kimmel
Many Years!
ReplyDeleteAm I the only one who sees some irony in Al Kimel doxing at the same time that his old internet sparring partner Owen White is reverting back to Rome? Proof that God does have a sense of humor. I wonder if they waved to each other as they were swimming the Tiber in opposite directions.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAnon,
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't a wave, per se, but there were hand gestures involved.
Axios!
ReplyDeleteFr. Al was part of my own journey, though he picked another way station and a bit earlier. Glad to see him received here well. Many years! Pray he will find peace and a fruitful ministry.
Our erstwhile Ocholophobist found much to dislike here. I'm sorry we failed to measure up in the many many ways identified and more that weren't listed. I pray he will find that which he seeks in Christ, the Holy Trinity and the church of Rome.
Forgive me, but one begins to wonder whether the quieter the conversion, the more likely its authenticity and/or sustainability.
Nice to hear. I wish him every blessing and lack of bother. I also hope we don't give him any scandal. Tall order.
ReplyDeleteI don't know Fr Kimel outside of his internet presence, and being Orthodox am pleased at his reception into the ROCOR. But at the same time the shortness of his stay in Rome coupled with the publicity of his swimming the Tiber is a bit troubling.
ReplyDeleteSteve
Wonderful! Fr. Kimmel's blog was instrumental in helping me leave the disaster of the Episcopalianism for Orthodoxy. I am happy to hear we now have such a capable and able new priest in Orthodoxy.
ReplyDeleteHow odd. I remember that back when Rod Dreher converted I left a comment on some blog that Fr. Kimel and I both used to frequent, indicating that I could hardly blame Mr. Dreher for finding Catholicism less attractive than Orthodoxy. I got an e-mail from Fr. Kimel later that day urging me not to jump ship. I assured him that I was the last person in the world ever likely to leave the Catholic Church, which seemed to reassure him. I wonder how many others Fr. Kimel counseled away from Orthodoxy back then.
ReplyDeleteI have rather lost touch with Fr. Kimel in the years since he ended his blog, so this was quite a surprise to me to read. In any event, I wish him well. It is a loss to us Catholics, but a gain to ROCOR.
Let's hope that the Russians give Fr. Alvin a real name.
ReplyDeleteVis
ReplyDeleteI believe he has taken the name Aidan.
In ICXC
John
Gloating is really not called for. Fr. Al's reasons for this move were far more personal than theological. This gives me hope that he can be "prayed" back home to Rome.
ReplyDeleteI believe he was just as "AXIOS" when he was Catholic. Just sayin'.
Diane
I dont think anyone was gloating. We are acknowledging his entrance and ordination in the Church which is customary. As for his motives, that is between him and God (and his spiritual father).
ReplyDeleteRegarding Diane's comment above:
ReplyDelete(1) It's interesting that so many of the same Roman Catholics who lauded Fr. Kimel's conversion to Rome as the result of weighty theological conviction have been quick to dismiss his departure as obviously the result of nothing more than "personal" issues.
(2) Has Fr. Kimel himself said that the "reasons for this move were far more personal than theological"? Because if not, the claim is pure gossip (gossip that, as noted above, conveniently serves the Roman Catholic polemical purpose of attempting to discredit any change in Fr. Kimel's theological convictions).
(3) I have no knowledge of Fr. Kimel's conversion other than what I've read here, but find it difficult to believe that his conversion wasn't prompted by a serious and principled change of theological views. Let's get real here: he joined ROCOR, not exactly a haven for closet Roman Catholics. I see no reason not to take his conversion at face value.
I agree that we should avoid speculating (or gossiping) about his motives absent some statement from him. Thus far Fr. Aidan has chosen to keep this matter discreet and not comment on it in any forum that I am familiar with. I think that needs to be respected.
ReplyDeleteI will therefor confine myself to noting that I do not want this thread to become a Catholic vs Orthodox flame fest.
I agree with you John. I used to read Pontifications regularly but at a certain period I stopped reading most blogs including Diane's.
ReplyDeleteI didn't know he went to Rome, i don't know why he left. I myself have been in both camps, love them both, hate them both and had brief stops in Episcopalianism, Continuing Anglicanism, Traditionalist Catholicism, and at age 63 still don't know where I fit in the grand scheme of things!
I have reconciled the differences to my own satisfaction and I don't care what Conservatives, Traditionalists, Liberals or Leftists say or think. I don't care what the Theologians or Scholars think either! I may opt for the Ordinariate down the road.
All I do know is that despite what everyone wants to be true, only GOD can and will decide in the end. Why can't people just leave it at that and be at Peace and Loving toward one another? Do we always have to be convinced we are right and they are wrong? What Jesus must think of all this.
Wonder which Western Rite parish Father Aidan will be assigned or if he will start a mission? Wonder why he chose ROCOR and not Antioch for a Western Rite?
Oh well, time will be the tell.
Fr. Igor would have been a more suitable name for a Russian priest than Fr. Aidan, but I recognize the delicacy of Westernized sentimentality in this area.
ReplyDeleteI'm heartened by Bp. Jerome's obvious effort to give the ROCOR's Western Rite a fighting chance of success without any stigma of reverse Uniatism. As I've mentioned before, ROCOR is a more disciplined steward of Western Orthodoxy than the more--ahem--experimental jurisdiction.
Well, one suspects that Kimel will now have to desert his formerly pro-life stance as well as many other of his former opinions. Obviously he is not bothered by being in full Eucharistic communion with the pro-abortionist Pat. Bart.
ReplyDeleteDale, would you make those same absurd comments to Fr. Kimel's face? It sure is easy to sit behind your monitor and make sweepingly judgmental statements about someone who's not present to defend himself...
ReplyDeleteDale,
ReplyDeleteHalf the RC clergy in Europe and N. America are secretly or openly pro-abortion and homosex. I find it odd that you do not seem concerned with his being in communion with all of them. And for the record there are a lot of Orthodox who are quite disturbed by some of Bart's statements. Probably far more as a percentage than say Catholics who are concerned with Roger Mahoney's.
If you have come here to make some substantive contribution to a discussion, even a critical one, that's fine. You are more than welcome. If however you have come here just to troll, I think you will find that I have little tolerance for that.
i know that many people are wondering why I have made the decision that I have made. All I can say is: I have done what is necessary for my salvation. If you wish to condemn me, I cannot argue with you. God has broken me. I am nothing. Kyrie eleison.
ReplyDeleteFather bless,
ReplyDeleteFather Aidan,
I think you will find a great deal of curiosity as to your motives but not too much judgment save a few snarky comments from the usual suspects. That said I have never really believed that there was any compelling reason for those of the catholic tradition moving from one communion to the other except that which have cited. I hope that one day (God willing) I may have the opportunity to take communion from you.
Under the mercy,
John
Dear Fr. Aiden:
ReplyDeleteI followed your Pontifications blog "religiously" and it was instrumental in my conversion to Catholicism when, like yourself, I had to leave the Episcopal Church and was considering both Catholicism and Orthodoxy. Indeed, my search ran parallel to yours and I believe my family and I entered into full communion with the Catholic Church around the same time you did. So, as with many others, your recent conversion to Orthodoxy came as surprise to me. I must admit, however, that your comment above has left me even more bewildered and wondering whether during your time in the Catholic Church you realized some error in her dogma that puts a Catholicʻs salvation in peril. I have tried to follow some of the theological discussions you have had with others on various websites, but alas, I find it generally beyond my understanding.
I apologize for the rambling post, but I value your understanding of the Faith. If you have found a doctrinal problem with Catholicism then I would certainly be interested in hearing about it, for the sake of my salvation and that of my family.
Yours in Christ,
- C. Harrison
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteAbusive comments are prohibited as per the guidelines linked in the sidebar, and will be deleted. Repeat offenders will be declared persona non grata and banned from the blog.
ReplyDeleteMr. Harrison, perhaps sometime much further down the road I might publicly reflect on my move into Orthodoxy; but I think it would be improper and unhelpful for me to do so now. I am simply grateful for the Lord's many mercies. We are in God's hands.
ReplyDeleteFather,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your brief comments. I too share some curiosity regarding recent events and look forward to your future reflection even as I recognize that this is perhaps not the right time.
In ICXC
John
Dear Father Aidan,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your response. I completely understand that this is neither the time nor proper forum for such a discussion. Having shared your journey through Pontifications, I know that your recent move must have been undertaken with serious deliberation, reflection, and soul-searching. While it would be untruthful of me to say I am not saddened by this change, I certainly do hope you find the peace and joy of Christ in your new home.
I will keep you in my prayers, and I humbly ask for yours.
Yours in Christ,
- C. Harrison
As of July 2010 Fr. A was participating on Orthodox blog threads concerning the anti-Catholic elements within Orthodoxy which Fr. Al had written about so many times in the past (see: http://venuleius.wordpress.com/2011/06/10/friday-thoughts-2/ ). Note that as of July 2010, merely 11 months ago, Fr. Al was still presenting himself publicly as a RC priest.
ReplyDeleteLess than two years ago Fr. Al was writing this: http://vivificat1.blogspot.com/2009/08/fr-al-kimel-on-12-differences-between.html, in which he downplays differences between RC and Orthodox, but in the same manner that JPII and BENXVI do.
All of us who are part of the post-Pontifications blogging world know that the two links I give above are typical and reflect a great deal of writing, over the course of at least half a decade, which Fr. Al has done on questions surrounding the relationship of Catholicism to Orthodoxy.
It seems that sometime between July 2010 (11 mere months ago) and his reception into the Orthodox Church, Fr. Al began to present himself as a layman, though he remained in his position working in the Catholic chaplaincy of a college (in what capacity we are not told). There is no indication I can find that he was laicized by the RCC, but he for some reason stopped to present himself as a priest to the public and presumably to practice as a RC priest.
Then, of all places, he converts into ROCOR. Were this story to involve Fr. Al coming in as a layman, it would hardly be a story at all except that Fr. Al had recently been a somewhat notable convert to Catholicism not long ago, and I think in such a case we would all agree with the assertion that we should leave him be and not ask any public questions nor ask for any public answers. But when we are talking about a priest in a public setting I think only natural that questions be asked and answers expected.
Less than two years ago the man was publicly downplaying the differences between Orthodoxy and Catholicism. Today he is not merely a member of ROCOR (which would be no big deal as far as the public is concerned), he is a ROCOR priest. I could be coy and suggest that ROCOR is veering in the direction of Metropolitan Hilarion Alfeyev with regard to their take on Catholics. [When I first read of Fr. Al going ROCOR one of the things I was reminded of was a letter to the editor of a Canadian paper that I read a year or so ago which had been written by the abbot of Christminster, the ROCOR Western Rite monastery in Canada. In this letter the abbot takes, shall we say, what we all know to be the stereotypical take by a ROCOR convert priest towards Catholicism.] But at very least I think it only fair that a newly ordained Orthodox priest who was 11 months ago writing about Orthodoxy and Catholicism as a Catholic priest within Orthodox forums should have to publicly state whether and how his positions have changed since, uh, last summer.
Of course, there is a lot more backstory that is not being told, which, again, would matter not at all were we talking about a layman, but given that we are talking about a newly ordained priest, I think it calls into question the supposed efforts of ROCOR to clean up their act administratively. Not that I worry about that anymore, mind you. Indeed, this whole affair delights me to no end.
Owen,
ReplyDelete1) The first blog citation deals with ag. Interesting discussion, though.
2) Are you suggesting that the qualities of both Fr. Aidan's conversion and the ROCOR's ordination were helter-skelter?
Vis,
ReplyDelete1. Oops. Thanks. Here is the link I met to put there: http://palamas.info/?p=4626
2. Oh Vis, this one is all yours, just let it play out. Then again, as I recall you are not the biggest fan of the Western Rite, so you may yet pull an I told you so out of this one.
Mr. White,
ReplyDeleteYou are mistaken about one thing, anyway, the timing. Fr. Kimel told me he moved to Roanoke in 5/08 due to his wife's illness, so I don't think he had his chaplaincy job in Newark any more by then. He certainly didn't have it in 2/10 when he and I exchanged some private messages on the Byzcath forum. I think you will find that his comments in various places were carefully phrased to be scholarly rather than statements about his own beliefs. At least that is the case for the ones I encountered.
I think he has been very private about this, but not deceptive as you almost seem to be implying. It is natural of us to wish we could hear him explain himself, but he doesn't have an obligation to do so. And we don't really have to approve of his reasons as it is only God who can judge such things. Let's leave it to Him.
Susan Peterson
Owen, I suspected that you'd get cutesy after I attempted to pin you down on the plain meaning of the characteristically dark hints that you lobbed into the stew. I'm uninformed in theological matters, but my reading of your corrected citation produces only Fr. Aidan's quoting a pop-theo-existentialist's mumbo-jumbo and his own pleasantly ecumenical commonplaces. He identified himself as a priest, but so what? Why is that material? If we presume that Fr. Aidan had significant familiarity with Orthodoxy and the capacity to negotiate the correspondingly mild learning curve, why wouldn't his conversion process be shorter than average?
ReplyDeleteOf course, I don't expect an answer. Plain speech would negate your implications' amorphously forboding aesthetic.
Owen,
ReplyDeleteSince you judge that people do not make such judgments on facts or reasons anyhow, and yours certainly wasn't as you confessed, his decision can't be any less honest it seems than yours, glass house and all. Let the man have some peace. It is not as if he waved this around like ar ed flag in front of a bull. What were your recent words, he "tried" it and "found it wanting."
Susan,
ReplyDeleteI did not imply deception. For all I know he has been ordered to remain silent. My bemusement is with ROCOR for ordaining in their old fashion.
Vis,
Let me get this straight - you admit that his rhetoric as of 11 months ago was typical of that which you disdain in Catholicism, that he presented it publicly as a Catholic priest, and you think it perfectly appropriate that he now is A PRIEST in your communion? You aren't concerned that this might be a bit trigger happy? I don't mean or wish to argue this point with you, I just wish to observe it with pleasure. "Fr. Aidan had significant familiarity with Orthodoxy and the capacity to negotiate the correspondingly mild learning curve." That he did, and presumably he had as much or more familiarity with Catholicism before his conversion and quickie ordination there. Look - the man has gone out of his way to give public pastoral admonition to myself and God knows how many others over the years I have read him online. Let me appreciate the feigned gravitas of his "brokenness" which must be silent as to the reasons for this conversion, though I will regret not seeing him do his James Bond pose in a cassock this time around.
Perry,
I judge that most, almost all people don't, and as you know some of the background facts of this case, you can imagine why this conversion is only another "proof" of that position on my part, and a glorious proof at that. But as I say, had he merely converted to Orthodoxy none of this would be worthy of comment. As I recall in a conversation we had a number of months ago, when I stated that the man was not fit to be a priest anywhere, you didn't disagree. But I suppose his wife and Fr. Waggener's are two peas from the same pod, so this all makes perfect sense. The gross error of a married priesthood is all starting to become clear to me now (wink, wink). Some people are addicted to pastoral ministry, and some Christian groups are desperate for clergy - when those two things meet - what a match.
Owen,
ReplyDeleteIf I remember your remarks on the phone, I believe I didn't respond. You took that whatever way you wanted to.
As for proof, that might be a proof if you knew the facts, but I know you don;t.
Its so ironic that you find a celibate priesthood to be the cast meow. Please, let your Uniate brothes know how erroneous they are. Besides, you could come down to St. Louie and see what a wonderful situation we have here with the Jesuits all living together, sex parties and all. Gives new meaning to your phrase "wink wink."
At least Fr. Kimel has the sense to keep his mouth shut for a time after he converts, as opposed to the tpyical consumeristic "I-tried it" evangelical convert to whatever. Here is your crow, hot and ready.
My goodness, this thread has taken an ugly turn. Before the host shuts off comments I would just like to say that I respect Fr Kimel for maintaining a dignified silence. As a Catholic I am sorry to see him go, but as a man I admire his choice not to cast a parting shot at the Church. The blogosphere is full of that sort of thing already.
ReplyDeleteHmmm. I have to admit that this thread has moved in a not a very nice direction. I don't mind critical posts, but I do mind snark gossip inuendo and ad hominem attacks. So yea if I get the feeling that constructive commentary has been exhausted I will shut it down.
ReplyDeleteFor the record, I too am curious about some of what has transpired. Of more interest to me is the close cooperation being alleged in some quarters between the OCA ROCOR and the Antiochians. If true such might make me wonder if that dispensationalist nut Camping might not have been onto something and the End is closer than we think.
But Fr. A has made what I believe is an entirely reasonable request for some time. I am sure he will share what has moved him to embrace Orthodoxy in his own time. So let's all try and extend a little courtesy, or at least civility.
Under the mercy,
John
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteGdelassu,you were right and I should have taken the hint. Oh well better late than never. It's time to lower the curtain on this thread.
ReplyDelete