St. James Episcopal Church will celebrate 42 years of abortion with
Planned Parenthood of Kansas and Mid Missouri on January 22, 2015 for
their Chili for Choice.
Read the rest here.
The Episcopal "Church" is simply apostate. It is not a Christian body and it is time to say this frankly. All of the Orthodox jurisdictions need to stop sucking up to these pagan child killers and terminate any so-called ecumenical dialogue. Further we need to stop recognizing their sacraments, yes including baptisms. I would sooner accept Mormon baptisms as potentially Christian (they are not). It is time for us to stop living in the land of make believe.
I would agree with the principle of not recognizing Episcopal baptisms any longer as long as their unfettered support and enabling for abortion on demand remains unchanged. Not all TEC dioceses' beliefs and practices are the same though, making this very hard to implement and this is indicated by how many churches and dioceses have broken away. I dont think we should only include TEC but also the ELCA and PCA and any other mainline that suports the killing of innocents. --chris
ReplyDeleteI have a friend who is a priest in the Episcopal Church. He's very Anglo Catholic in his belief and practice, and his parish is much more orthodox than many "high" parishes in the Episcopal Church. He believes women cannot be ordained; in fact, in his diocese, he does not recognize the "holy orders" of the woman "bishop" in his diocese. I have yet to engage him regarding Katherine Jefferts Schori, as I have not gotten up the nerve to do so.
ReplyDeleteMy friend is an example of what is good in the Episcopal Church, though I would not be surprised if he swam the Tiber one day. I don't know how he does it, though, day to day, knowing what's going on in the Episcopal Church.
Me, I'm a Roman Catholic, and sometimes don't know how I do it day to day with what's going on in the RCC, and I'm a layperson, not a priest. It's hard enough trying to live out my Baptism, love God and neighbor, and live out my marriage covenant with my wife, without jumping through the hoops set up by a lot of "we are church" elitists.
Tomorrow is the Octave Day of the Holy Innocents (yes, I'm an "old calendar" guy in the RCC). My wife and I can't have children, and that a dinner is being had to support the likes of Planned Parenthood makes me want to vomit.
I agree with Bob that a dinner to support Planned Parenthood—at a church—makes me want to throw up. That said, I am a little lost as to how this tells us anything one way or another about baptisms. I am Catholic, not Orthodox, so I would not presume to tell the Orthodox Church whose sacraments they must recognize. Still and all, the personal virtue of the minister does not affect the sacrament. A bad man can baptize, and the baptism is still a baptism. The Episcopal church (or at least this diocese) may be morally loathsome, but how does that affect their baptisms?
ReplyDeleteThe problems with the Episcopalians go well beyond their embrace of abortion. There is no real article of faith to which one must subscribe to be one. They have clergy of every rank who openly question each and every word of the Creed after the "I believe" part. Their presiding bishopess appears to be a Universalist having repeatedly made statements along the lines of "Christ is just one of the many paths to the divine."
ReplyDeleteThe simple truth is we have no idea what is happening in Piskie baptisms. We don't know what is being said, what is being intended, and so on. In theory they are bound by the Book of Common Prayer. In practice this is often not the case. Are there Christians in TEC? Certainly. But the organization itself is not Christian in the sense that it formally and unambiguously proclaims the basics of Christian truth and doctrine. It is more a sort of liturgical Unitarian Universalism.
And of course the few who are as a matter of personal faith still Christian are in full communion with the likes of Jack Spong. You are who you are in communion with.
As for the differences in sacramental theology between Rome and Orthodoxy, the Orthodox Church generally does not recognize the grace of sacraments outside of the Church. In theory neither does Rome. But the RCC having embraced Augustine's dual nature construct for the Church, believing in an invisible church outside the bounds of the visible and canonical one, has largely rendered this doctrine moot.
When we receive other Trinitarian Christians without baptizing them, we are making a concession on the assumption that their heterodox baptism was performed in a similar manner with similar intent to that which is done by the Church and therefor whatever is lacking can be repaired by Chrismation. However there are definite limits to how far this concession by economia can be extended.
Well, that makes fine sense. In other words, it is not really the abortion-benefit-at-St.-James-parish that makes you question their sacraments. It is the lack of theological content. That seems a perfectly fine and sensible reason to question a baptism. I certainly agree that one cannot recognize (for example) Mormon baptisms for this reason. I suppose that the same could apply to Episcopalians.
ReplyDeleteI just want to affirm the excellent one-liner from John of Ad Orientem: "You are who you are in communion with."
ReplyDeleteTo be in communion is not just to make nice-nice, it is to affirm that we are one in heart and mind. No seriously, thoughtfully, orthodox Christian can possibly claim to be one in heart and mind with this abomination. To be so can only mean one suffers from delusion or has surrendered to ungodliness.
If interested in a view from one who has some personal knowledge of this, I wrote a reflection at the time on my blog.
ReplyDeletehttp://dominusilluminatio.blogspot.com/2015/01/a-christian-approach-to-abortion.html
I wrote it because I was troubled by the event, but as is often the case, it's more complicated than one might suppose from simply reading impersonal articles, usually from sources with a clear agenda one way or the other. Among other things, the post demonstrates why saying that the Episcopal Church provides "unfettered support and enabling for abortion on demand" is at least misleading (and in my view, simply untrue).
As I mention in that post, I really feel that incarnate relationship is of paramount importance, and so I often question the value of relatively impersonal conversations online. And I honestly don't know if there is cause for me to comment here upon an old post that I stumbled upon by chance, and given the evident belief that my baptism is invalid due to my membership in an apostate "Church"; but for whatever reason, I do feel so led. I started to respond to some of the assertions made above, but it became too long for a comment, so I have posted the thoughts on my own blog:
http://dominusilluminatio.blogspot.com/2015/05/a-rejoinder-on-essential-catholicity-of.html
I hope you will receive these for what there are: sincere reflections offered without animosity by one who desires greater understanding, charity, and unity among Christians of varying traditions.
Eirene Christou,
Robert Clay Calhoun