Thursday, October 14, 2010

Ortho-Cath Reunion? Not so fast

Teófilo de Jesús has posted the results of an online survey he conducted aimed at gauging the attitudes of Orthodox laymen and women towards restoration of communion with Rome. The results of this unscientific poll suggest great skepticism, and resistance to any rapprochement with Rome that does not include significant concessions, especially in the area of ecclesiology and doctrine. A not insignificant minority were opposed to reunion under any circumstances.

You may read the detailed results here.


Ed said...

As I recall the results of a clergy (and politician) engineered reunion were not so good last time. The people are right to be suspicious. Rome needs to conform itself to the standard of the gospel, or we cannot have communion with them. And that means, among other things, an end to the heresy of a universal heirarch with unlimited jurisdiction.

Bob Glassmeyer said...

As a Roman Catholic, I am also suspicious. Ed, I very much appreciate what you wrote, and John, I recall something in a previous post about RC's not being aware of or ignoring the obstacles to unity. (I hope I am remembering correctly...I have CRS lately). :)

There is a "union fever" going on in the Roman Church, and it is often expressed in parish circles and RCIA groups as, "why don't we all just get along and drop our differences?"

People on both sides of the Tiber/Bosphorous divide have lived, died, and been martyred for these differences, for one. If it's just a matter of "let's just be nice to each other," then we make a mockery of what both Orthodox and Catholics have suffered these many centuries, and we make a mockery of Christ's time on the Cross, not to mention His public ministry.

Our problem in the RCC is manifold. First, we often can't see past the end of our noses; we tend to think the universe revolves around us. Second, we don't see, or refuse to see, the very serious, fundamental obstacles in the way of reunion. Third, we are constantly re-defining and re-naming ourselves to be "relevant and meaningful." All of this, especailly the third point, causes confusion amongst the faithful, and does tremendous violence to their souls. All these things we've done to our own peril.

Lord, have mercy.

Teófilo de Jesús said...

Thank you for the link to Vivificat, Dave! I really appreciate it.

Yours in Christ,

VSO said...

Thank you Bob, as an employee of a Catholic parish I see such things all the time.

First and foremost, if catholics want to reunite with us Orthodox all Catholics have to BE Orthodox. We dont' think alike, we don't look alike, we don't sound alike and we don't act alike. When my fellow Orthodox see what goes on in the typical post-Vatican 2 I mean "Community" they run behind the walls and arm the battlements.

Visibilium said...

The survey's dorkiness is displayed by the lack of any direct reference to the filioque and the presumption that I give a rat's ass what 29% or 52% of anyone thinks about any vaguely-worded issue.

If the RCs are serious about ecumenism, then my simple advice to them is: CEASE DEVELOPING!

Bob Glassmeyer said...

Thank you, Visibilium! As the late Ed McMahon would have said, "You are correct, sir!"

There is way too much vagueness, way too much "development," and way too much watering down of the Catholic Faith.

No one would dream of watering down a vaccine, cancer medicine, or soup in a soup kitchen, but by golly, people will screw around with people's spiritual nourishment.

Today I received a flyer from the seminary I once attended, and in spite of all the outwardly orthodox appearance of the place, the flyer's message still comes across vaguely. Guys can wear cassocks, birettas, maniples and cappa magnas until they are blue in the face, but until the "development", as you say, stops, it means nothing, or, at least, very little.

When termites are consuming the house, who gives a flip about the hostas in the front yard?

Ed said...


I do feel bad for you guy about the "termites." In truth, the RCC would probably be better off allowing its internal theological schisms to become full-blown organizational schisms. I don't know much about the clergy standpoint, but I don't think any what I would (pejoratively) call "real" Catholic has much in common with Catholics as typified by Nancy Pelosi.