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The Infant God
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8 comments:
If you are going to go on about the Church in Rome, how about Patriarch Kirill's position on Russia's violence against the Ukraine. And, I should remind you lot that by rights, the patriarchy of Ukraine should be senior to that of Moscow.
I think the behavior of the Russian Church, which has fallen back into its habitual role as a de-facto department of the government, has been appalling in this matter. And FWIW, this is the view of the overwhelming majority in the Orthodox world outside of Russia. But that's not quite on the same level as what's going on in the Roman Church. As for the "patriarchy of Ukraine," there is no such thing.
"And, I should remind you lot that by rights, the patriarchy of Ukraine should be senior to that of Moscow."
An absurd statement, historically speaking. I could explain this at some length, key names and dates being Isidore (1441), St. Jonah (1448), and Theodosios (1461/1464). But it's tedious to scatter pearls, etc., so I simply ask you to defend your claim..
I would wonder whether the panic is misplaced. Do we really believe there's traction in any of these? Sure there's a constituency of one or two, but legions? I doubt it. And the likely that it leads to waywardness is probably very, very small.
That said, I think one of the strengths (as I understand it) in Orthodox teaching has been it's insistence on keeping the faith and practice largely unchanged, but bending to meet us - individual sinners that we are - WHERE we are for what we need until we can stand aright. Fairly, many of us never do manage that, and maybe simply stretching is the best we manage. But I think this is the point and virtue of Oeconomia... as exercised in pastoral care is that it allows for unlimbering our stoney hearts.
But if we imagine that folks are already living perfect lives before they're worthy enough for us to minister to them, then I'm not sure we have much appeal in our Way. And if we are a perfect church that shrinks from bending down to lift the lives of those who would come along our Way.... and fears to tread into these matters for fear of stains that might be blotted out, I think we blaspheme the Holy Spirit's cleansing and redemptive powers.
So while conceding "issues", there may be less meat here and more "gotcha" of an unconstructive sort. Sort of like two friends comparing their defects with punctuated "Oh yeah? And so's you're old man!" and so forth. We can do better. For surely as every effort at meeting folks where they are can run towards a shoal where redirection might be helpful, there's a greater (or at least equal) issue in not trying.
Just saying.
Putin and his Russian supporters view the war as the equivalent of reforging the Russian Imperium, comparable to the US War Between the States.
The larger issue is more difficult. Orthodoxy is inherently wedded to the Russian and Hellenistic empires, and the numerous other nation-state Churches, and as such is completely alien to the American republican paradigm.
If the Orthodox bishops had any sense, instead of just endless ecclesiological expositions about a long dead Empire, they'd unify and declare an autocephalous American Church. The remittances to the Old World bishops would cease and we'd tell them good bye and Godspeed with their ancient, intractable conflicts. But our bishops aren't Americans and never will be. They are Greeks, Russians, Romanians, Lebanese, Syrians, Ukrainians, Carpatho-Russians, Albanians, and probably several others I'm forgetting.
The OCA is probably the definitive American jurisdiction, but global Orthodoxy despises the OCA and does not take it seriously. They have a Tomos from the Russian Mother Church, but even the Mother Church ignores it.
American Orthodoxy may yet putter along for a decade or so in its present, schizophrenic form. But at some point, the Orthodox must either declare themselves their own Church in the Americas, or limp over to the Catholic Church (another failed paradigm).
"And, I should remind you lot that by rights, the patriarchy of Ukraine should be senior to that of Moscow."
I commented on this claim several days ago, and then delete my response because it was so full of typoes, replacing it (as I thought) with a corrected version which, however, never appeared.
The stated quoted above seems without historical foundation. I ask the writer please to justify it in the light of the following names and dates: Metropolitan Maximos (1299), Metropolitan Peter (1325), Metropolitan Isidore (1441), Metropolitan Jonah (1448), and Metropolitan Theodosios (1461/1464).
I wouldn't mind if there were a legitimate Patriarch of Ukraine. But the only legitimate Ukrainian Orthodox church is that of Metropolitan Onuphry.
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