Tuesday, June 02, 2009

More nauseating clap trap from the religious left...

A prominent Catholic academic and supporter of President Barack Obama says that Roman Catholic Archbishops Raymond Burke and Charles Chaput and Bishop Joseph Naumann did not take a "Catholic approach" when they insisted that prominent pro-abortion Catholic politicians should not take communion.

He also said bishops and priests who deny communion to pro-abortion Catholic politicians are engaging in “intimidation.”

“Let me tell you that to be separated from the body of Christ even once is intimidation,” said Douglas Kmiec, professor of constitutional law at Pepperdine University in Malibu, Calif.

Kmiec--a campaign advisor to Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama in 2008--was barred from communion by a priest in California last year. Kmiec wrote a book, “Can a Catholic Vote for Him?” which promoted the idea that pro-life Catholics could support Obama, who supports legalized abortion, embryonic stem-cell research, and same-sex unions.

“But it is not just an isolated case of a mistaken priest who thankfully, with the discipline of the local archbishop (Cardinal Roger Mahony of Los Angeles), wrote a letter of apology, which of course, is accepted," said Kmiec, speaking of his own case, on a panel at the National Press Club last week.

“It is instead that since 2004, it has been the teaching of at least some bishops that this is something that should be readily advertised and pursued,” said Kmiec.

Kmiec, a former dean of the Columbus School of Law at Catholic University of America, cited these examples:

“‘Mr. Kerry, don’t come to St. Louis.’ ‘Mr. Biden, if you’re in town, in Denver, and you’re attending mass, you should think twice about coming to the altar rail.’ ‘Kathleen Sebelius, because we disagree with how you have discharged your responsibilities as you’ve been advised by your legal counsel, stay away. Publicly confess.’

“I suggest that is not either an effective or a Catholic approach,” Kmiec added.

Read the rest here.


nothinghypothetical said...

So as an Orthodox who voted for Obama, I shouldn't be allowed to receive communion?

Just checking.

John (Ad Orientem) said...

My understanding is that the interdict some of the Roman bishops are calling for is directed at RC politicians who use the powers of their office to advance or protect the so called right of a mother to killer her children.

As far as it goes I support that policy and would be fine if it were extended to Orthodox politicians who promote abortion. Abortion is a non-negotiable moral evil. It is nothing less than premeditated murder. Anyone who uses the powers of a public office to promote a right to murder should absolutely be barred from the chalice.

As for whether or not you should receive communion; that is between you and your spiritual father. I voted for Bush back in 2000 (but not in '04)and my conscience still bothers me. But for all of his many faults Bush did not support the legalized mass murder of children.

If the Democratic Party could ever divorce itself from the cult of death they would probably bury the GOP and govern for a generation.


Anonymous said...

Bush certainly didn't do anything to change things.

Vir Speluncae Orthodoxae said...

"So as an Orthodox who voted for Obama, I shouldn't be allowed to receive communion?"

There's no such thing as a perfect candidate that represents the Faith, not even our so-called Orthodox politicians. However...

Considering that he opposed the "Born Alive Act" goes out of his way to aid the murder of the unborn (and forces us to pay for abortions) is a marxist, is doing everything he can to turn our country into the Weimar Republic, made the GLSEN founder (a foul-mouthed sodomite and anti-christian bigot) a nominee for a government education post and declared June 2009 "LBGT Month" and is effectively the anti-christ:

I think you should repent or be anathematized because an "Orthodox" does not support these things.

And for the record I never voted for Bush.

John (Ad Orientem) said...

Thanks for your comment. Substantively I agree with your points about Obama. But please go a little easy with the hyperbole.

nothinghypothetical said...

This is what I told my mother, who described the 08 election in single issue terms (that issue being abortion).

"I can vote for the party who supports abortion, or I can vote for the party that does so publicly."

I think the Republican party uses pro-life rhetoric to gain votes (and some individuals are personally truly pro-life), but has no real intention of much less a plan for overturning Roe v Wade. This isn't even going to get returned to the states. Much less likely is the proper constitutional protections for these murdered innocents.

I was going to need Rolaids no matter how I voted. But becoming convinced that torture was unacceptable even in ticking-bomb situations (I still watch Jack Bower do his dirty work, but feel very differently about even a show like 24) and that no serious effort to stop abortions will come from the Republicans tipped the balance.

I know Doug Kmiec personally. I don't expect to convince anyone of this, but he's being misunderstood at best and more likely deliberately misrepresented.

Perhaps both myself and Prof Kmiec have committed one sin though, we have become cynical about the culture war. I cannot speak for him, but for myself, I no longer play to win (in the current climate, winning control of the governmental power structures might actually end up with us losing the souls of the people), but to mitigate damage.

I'm beating my sword into a plowshare. I'm no longer listing persons as enemies, but remembering our true fight is against the prince of the power of the air.

John (Ad Orientem) said...

As screwed up as they are on most issues; the Republican Party is pretty solidly pro-life. They are of course constrained by the law. But they have been appointing pro-life judges at every opportunity and Bush for all of his really bad decisions did everything within his legal power to obstruct abortion that possible by issuing executive orders and blocking public funding of abortions or aid to foreign nations for abortions. You criticize him but I did not see any specific complaints. What do you think he should have done that he did not?

All of which is moot as it is being undone by Obama, who is the most pro-abortion president in history.

Obama is anti-life. That is what it comes down to. Not all issues are equal. One can debate issues like the best way to deal with poverty and the environment and war and peace. But murder is a moral absolute. If you believe abortion is murder I do not see how you can in conscience vote for someone who supports it.

Do you believe abortion is murder? If yes then your arguments for voting for the man ring hollow at best. If no, then I think you are rejecting a pretty much carved in stone teaching of the Orthodox Faith. And yes that means you should not be taking communion in the Orthodox Church.

Under the mercy,

nothinghypothetical said...

I may have made choices that regardless of my rationale you've decided cannot be rationalized.

If we start with different assumptions, we're going to bump around unproductively here.

I am anti-abortion. I believe it's murder. I also think Kmiec and his strategy will save more lives this year and in the coming years than you and your strategy. But that's both a judgment call and a forecast into the future. So there's no certainty either way.

You ask for specifics, but the track record of the Republican party that controlled most of state and federal government for most of the last 30 years hasn't advanced this cause. What specific can be said?

I have been the room and heard conservative Supreme Court Justices (plural) admit that Roe v Wade may get nudged, but it will never be overturned. If you don't have them, you have nothing.

Believe what you will. Call this work fighting the good fight, but I believe you are tilting at windmills when there are other trees you could prune and bare more fruit.

I also think demonizing even abortion providers is playing with spiritual disaster. I've know people who's hearts are poisoned over this issue, so that they cannot love. And that may end up being a crime worse than murder.

The Ochlophobist said...

I wrote in Wendell Berry for President.

I have pretty much decided that I will not vote again.

John (Ad Orientem) said...

I haven't reached the point where I have sworn off voting permanently. But it getting pretty hard to find people I can pull the lever for. I held my nose and voted for McCain last year. If he runs again I think I would be OK with Bob Barr.


The young fogey said...

Kmiec seems less like an Obamacon with honour like Andrew Bacevich and more like a religious-left person.

I might vote again if Rand Paul (Ron's son - it's short for Randal) tries for the presidency some day. (He's trying for US Senator from Kentucky next year).