Monday, October 26, 2009

Rumors: +Jonah and the Western Rite

I am hearing things. Is anyone else?


pierre said...

What'd you hear? ... Or do you not want to go through the Raging Bull bit?

John (Ad Orientem) said...

I have heard +Jonah and the OCA mentioned in conjunction with the three words...

I can not overstate that this is a rumor. But I wanted to know if anyone else with their ear to the ground has heard anything.


Reader Polycarp Sherwood said...

Well... Metropolitan Jonah did conjecture at Nashota House that a Western Rite Archdiocese was a POSSIBILITY. Beyond that it would seem that it would take a lot of development and time... I would think. Becoming Orthodox shouldn't be reduced to a matter deciding to switching hats one day.

Anonymous said...

Definitely support in principle. Would love to see it happen. On the other hand.... Bill, tGF

Reactionary said...

What is the justification for the Western Rite? I'm not presuming there isn't one or that the justification is flawed; it's just something I never thought to look at prior to Chrismation.

Fr. Christopher Cantrell SSC said...

Reader Polycarp Sherwood has hit the nail on the head. I think the rumor is the product of someone spinning off of his answer to an Anglican seminarian's question about what he thought the end of a fruitful Anglican/Orthodox dialogue might look like. It was all recorded. But it was a single remark - and the words "Western Rite" were not used.

tap said...

It would be interesting, to see the reaction of a lot of Orthodox, Especially online, who keep on talking about "retaining tradition." Most interesting would be the what Former "traditionalist" Catholics who converted to Eastern Orthodoxy would think in this situation.


Reader Polycarp Sherwood said...

While it is true that Metropolitan Jonah did not speak of a "Western Rite" at the Conference at Nashotah House; earlier in April he said, "It doesn't matter if we Eastern Rite or Western Rite, doesn't matter the language in the service is...we are one indigenous Church.". The adequacy of current Anglican liturgical use was implicity put into question by the number of conditions set by Metropolitan Jonah as well. I think the possibility of a Western Rite for these folks was implicit and the informal discussion certainly pointed in that qustion. I know, I was there.

As to the question; "What is the justification for the Western Rite?"

The answer is quite simple; It was the Rite used by by the West before the schism and consequently was the Rite of many of the Church Fathers and Saints of the undivided Church. As Bishop Jerome on the eve of his Consecration said; "The earthly Roman Church separated from Orthodoxy; but the heavenly, Orthodox Church of Rome will always exist, and St Gregory the Dialogist and the other Orthodox Western Saints are ever with us...

This truth was seen with exceptional spiritual clarity by St John Maximovitch, who restored Western Orthodoxy: he remains invisibly present with us, and his mission lives."

Fr. Christopher Cantrell SSC said...

I just listened to the recording again (And, I might add, I was there also - in the back, on the right hand side just behind Bishop Melchisedek). I have great interest in a Western Rite and will be happy to work for it from my end.

Reader Polycarp Sherwood said...

Fr. Christopher

"I have great interest in a Western Rite and will be happy to work for it from my end.".

As I said I was there as well along with Fr.James Deschene who is the Abbot of Christ the Saviour Monastary (Christminster)in Hamilton Ontario.

Christminster has an Oblates program that draws in men and women from a number of Orthodox Jurisdictions and as well has facilities for visitors (including non-Orthodox inquirers). I know that a number of people who have had an interest in Western Rite Orthodoxy and who want to reconnect to the traditional Benedictine roots of the Western Church have visited us in recent months. There are facilities for male visitors at the Monastery and are corresponding facilities at St. Benet House (which is across the street) for visiting female oblates and inquirers as well.

Aside from the possibilities that exist with the OCA I am sure that you are familiar with the various Antiochian Western Rite Parishes that are around. Christminster and the attached Our Lady of Glastonbury Orthodox Church are a part of ROCOR and are Stavropegial Institutions directly under Metropolitan Hilarion.

Columba Silouan said...

The way this rumor was presented at Saint Marks Antiochian Orthodox Church was as follows:

In the Adult Sunday School morning class on Sunday three weeks hence, our Archpriest told us of plans for an proposed OCA Anglican Diocese along the lines of the Albanian and Bulgarian Dioceses. This would be a diocese of affinity, and not one of geography.

One of the features of this planned Diocese was the possibility of an Orthodox Western Rite Bishop over said Diocese.

Soon afterwards, I posted this information on my little web blog called Orthodox Parker and the Notes from the Underground web blog apparently found it and posted it there where it garnered around 16 comments.

One exciting development was that the recently published 2009 Book of Common Prayer by Lancelot Andrewes Press made it into the hands of Anglican Bishop Iker of Fort Worth, among other people there.

In order for this to take place, however, some Anglicans are going to have to decide to convert to Holy Orthodoxy. Hopefully those Anglicans who can't agree with Roman Catholic doctrines will come our way instead.

It is presumed that a new OCA Western Rite would borrow heavily from the forms and materials already available and practiced in the Antiochian Western Rite.

One advantage to such a development would be a Western Rite free of the shadow of recent scandals in the Antiochian Archdiocese.

Sincerely in the Blessed Trinity,

Columba Silouan

Reader Polycarp Sherwood said...

Thanks to Columba Silouan for clearing the air as to the genesis of the original rumor. While everything he says can logically flow from earlier tentative developments it would seem that there is a lot of work yet to be done.

If one were to parse the words of Metropolitan Jonah a bit it would seem that his reference at Nashotah House to the backing he had from the OCA Synod perhaps served to tip the balance towards enthusiastic projection.

Xristoforos McAvoy said...

I do not believe it makes sense to have try to make the modern anglican and reformation practices orthodox, as done by the Antiochian Church.

It is an artificial reality and illusion to a certain extent.
Unfortunately this tends to set them up against certain ancient western practices and create a situation where using ancient Sarum practice is referred to negatively as archaeology. Which if one takes this literally would mean even gregorian/latin plain chant itself would be a mistake to use, as it was killed off as a living tradition in the 18th century age of enlightenment and had to be rediscovered in it's most ancient form at Solesmes in the 1850's to find itself only widely used in the 20th century after about 400 years lapse. The majority of the newest Antiochian Western Rite Vicariate Missions and Parishes choose to use the Gregorian/Tridentine Liturgy, not the "St Tikohn" Book of Common Prayer one.

By God's grace eventually a truly orthodox latin rite hermenutic of continuity harmonious with the present eastern rite.