The bravery and courage of ancient Spartans is legendary. The name conjures up visions of fearless soldiers charging into battle without thought of life or limb. The word spartan has even crept into the English language to describe the conditions that are at the opposite extreme from comfortable and luxurious.Read the rest here.
For the past week Sparta has been the epicentre of a missionary outreach that has reached and touched thousands of homes as a team of 180 from countries as diverse as Canada, Romania, Italy, South Africa, Germany, Holland, the USA and Albania.
In all 60,000 households received a copy of the New Testament in contemporary Greek as part of a project called Operation Joshua. One participant described it as a "Tsunami of blessing" as energetic teams using some 50 cars, criss-crossing the sparse and mountainous region. They have gone to over 800 villages in some of the remotest areas of Greece bringing the message of life.
How does this project compare with other evangelistic efforts? In a word, "historic". In a country where there are less than 20,000 people are recognised as evangelical believers this was truly a significant event. This is a country that has never had a reformation or a revival. It has never held any mass evangelistic campaigns.
The Terrible, Troubling Test
11 hours ago
25 comments:
And the reasoning behind a state protected Church becomes even more apparent.
Appalling.
Please remember, that many of these people also signed the Manhattan Declaration as well. I have long argued that the so-called "Religious Right" is as much our enemy as anyone on the "progressive" left. Orthodox Christians in the Anglosphere must make no common cause with these people.
I grew up in Texas, and I am very familiar with these loony sectarians. The so-called "Dominionists" or "Theonomists" (acolytes of Rushdoony and North) are the American equivalent of the Croatian Ustashas. So far, these people have been patsies and shills for the corporate oligarchy, who have managed to "vector" and control them. However, if they ever achieve serious power in the U.S. in their own right, the first people they will come after will be the Orthodox.
For this reason, I believe that Metropolitan Jonah, Fr. Chad Hatfield, et al., have made a serious strategic blunder in signing the Manhattan Declaration. To repeat, Orthodox Christians have nothing in common with radical Protestants, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, "Theonomists" or anyone else like that. We have no business signing statements of faith with people whose theology requires them to stab us in the back when the opportunity presents itself.
I hope that the senior OCA clergy who signed that statement will reflect upon their error and resolve not to repeat it in the future.
Michael Martin
Serbian Orthodox Church of King St. Milutin
Auckland, New Zealand
Simply Disgusting.
I guess I come at this a little differently than some of your readers. I am a convert to Orthodoxy. While I am convinced that Orthodoxy is the True Faith, and rather amused at the blindness of these missionaries, I don't really have a problem with them going to Greece. A state church, in my opinion, is always bad for the church. It encourages nominalism and corruption. I am glad that I had the freedom to choose to be Orthodox, and that Orthodoxy has the freedom to convert people like me. Therefore, I think other groups get to have a go at converting people in countries where the majority claim to be Orthodox. If we get to do it, so do others. While I would be very sorry to see a person choose the doctrinal error and thin gruel of Protestant evangelicalism over the truth and riches of Orthodoxy, some people in Greece are not and never will be Orthodox. Some people (like people everywhere) think they're going to inherit the Kingdom because grandma was Orthodox. Ultimately though, freedom of conscience is very important for following Christ. We are not Muslims, who appear to be more interested in people conforming rather than actually believing. I would rather see a Greek be an evangelical than be Orthodox not because he believes, but because he is prevented by the state approved church from making a choice.
These missionaries if they manage to gain a larger number of converts, will destroy the local culture.
They should be prevented from proselytizing by all means.
CNI:
So, when Protestants argue that Catholics and Orthodox are destroying the culturally Protestant nature of the U.S., we should be forbidden to convert people as well? Look, I love Orthodox culture, but we can't deny people the freedom of their conscience because we don't like the ideas they are espousing. Now, if you can prove that a group is using illegal means (such as bribery or force), then the authorities can do something about it. If Orthodox are so concerned about losing the faithful, then perhaps we need to spend more time struggling for holiness ourselves, commit our parishes to good catechesis, and have people who boldly proclaim and live the truth of Orthodoxy in season and out of season. We don't have to sit back and let them take our people without a fight, but it's a bad tactic to try to hang on to people by preventing them from being exposed to certain religious ideas. It makes us look afraid and weak, as if our message cannot stand up to competition. Church attendance in the US is higher than in Europe, and I think one of the reasons for this is that people choose their religion freely. This has its own problems, but I think it's the only choice we have unless we want the Church to be trying to keep people by force-which Jesus never did.
The Orthodox churches have never been in an environment that one could describe as an aggressive religious market; they have always enjoyed some state support and state granted privileges. I don't see why this should change. Only within such an environment an Orthodox culture recognizable as such is possible.
If we imported Protestant concepts like "religious freedom" (ie freedom to proselytize), the cult of 'personal choice", which all go against custom and tradition, the true backbone of an orthodox society, we would become probably Byzantine rite Protestants
Orthodoxy to remain orthodoxy has to be the religion of the masses, or, in any case, a religion based on more than "personal choice"..
There are some really sick people here, people who can't see the forest through the trees. "By all means", wow now that is very Christ like. The biggest barrier to Orthodoxy are the Orthodox. If many Orthodox had their way we would be the Christian Taliban forcing people into Orthodoxy by the sword.
CNI,
I want Orthodoxy to be the religion of the masses-but what does that mean? That they are culturally Orthodox just because they haven't considered anything else? Will that get them into the Kingdom? I think we need to ask some questions. If a person can be converted away from Orthodoxy by an American tossing them a Bible, a tract and giving a witness talk, what does that say about the Orthodox that just got converted? Secondly, any time evangelicals go to convert the Orthodox, some of those evangelicals get converted to Orthodoxy themselves. There's more than a handful of them, and this trip to Greece may be just the thing for some of them. I am very, very traditional theologically, and I understand that our freedom of religion causes religious consumerism and individualism. These are not good things. Nonetheless, man is either free or he is not. There was a time when a Greek could spend their whole life without running into a Protestant. They would live and die Orthodox. How many of them lived and died as pious believers as opposed to those who simply were Orthodox by inertia, only God knows. Not my place to judge. My guess is that most Greeks today are in no danger of becoming evangelical. Neither are they in any danger of being pious Orthodox. They, like most people in Europe (and in the US), hold their religion very lightly-at least that is how it appears if frequency of practice and having a life that seriously reflects Christian values are any indication. Most Greeks are probably pretty heathen in reality, even if someone baptized them when they were little. Orthodox should not scream so much when people "steal" their sheep. We should ask if the sheep was really ours in the first place, and if it was, we should ask why it was so easy to steal it. We should even wonder about that image. If a person really becomes convinced that Protestantism is true, how in the world can we keep them Orthodox without doing some violence to them? It is an insult to human dignity to think the way to handle things is to keep people from hearing ideas we don't like or agree with. I live here in the United States, surrounded by Protestants. I don't think there's anyway in the world they could ever convert me away from Orthodoxy. I manage in a profoundly unOrthodox country. Should I give my fellow co-religionists any less credit for being able to recognize the truth? If I'm trying to keep stuff away from them because they might stray, am I in fact admitting that perhaps we have not educated our people well and led them to a vibrant, active faith as Orthodox Christians? If the latter is true, we need to point the finger at ourselves first rather than complaining about the people who come in to fill the void-even if they are ridiculous.
Greece and the Church are entitled to defend against American cultural imperialists, including barring them from the country.
The inconvenient truth here is that evangelicals are spreading false doctrine in Orthodox lands because they know their treacly creed gets no traction among the Buddhists and Muslims, who rightly regard them as ridiculous and hypocrital. So they go for vulnerable prey in lands still suffering the effects of two world wars and Bolshevism.
I'm with Reader Michael on this. The Orthodox will be the first group the knives come out for. There is a real hatred among the evangelicals for the Holy Mysteries.
Well, if they are that ridiculous (and I think they are as well), then we shouldn't have to worry about them making too many converts. Do you hear what you're saying? You're saying that you can't trust the Orthodox laity to be able to sort out truth from false doctrine, and therefore the Church as an institution and the state have to "protect" them from false ideas. Muslims use this same argument to prevent their people from converting to Christianity-including Orthodox Christianity. They even talk about cultural imperialism. Do you really want to go there? Further, Greece is very happy to have our products and our pop culture (more's the pity there), so are we really going to keep out "American" religious ideas? Please. People get to be wrong. I simply can't see how anyone can convert to Orthodoxy in this country, and then suggest other people shouldn't have the opportunity to convert to something else if they choose to. It is completely inconsistent-and in this world, with our technology and travel, you simply cannot prevent people from hearing ideas and following them if they want to. A religion is a religion of the masses when the masses are convinced of its truth. If it is the religion of the masses because it is forced on them, then what is it worth? Israel was a theocracy and a culture-I seem to remember some followers of Jesus shaking up that apple cart. Look, I think these evangelicals are absolute heretics, but I don't think we do ourselves any favors by using the suggested tactic. Do we have confidence in our Faith or not? Do we have faith in our fellow Orthodox to be able to say "no" to these evangelicals? If not, why not? Why do we need a paternalistic entity to keep people and ideas away from them as if they are weak-minded children? Why don't we invite them in and convert them? Are we less able to give the truth than they are able to give lies? Are the Mysteries weak and ineffectual? I think not. If we are the True Faith, then what in the world are we afraid of? If people don't want to be Orthodox, why try to keep them Orthodox?
Sick, sick, sick. Proof that fundamentalism comes in all stripes. It makes me ashamed to be Orthodox. Faith comes by hearing the word of God. Orthodoxy has become way to comfortable keeping the word of God from the world, the Buddhist and Muslims. Talk about a bad witness, been to an Orthodox church lately? But wait I am told not to judge the nominal Orthodox because though they live like devils they have sacramental grace all the while the Orthodox judge the evangelicals.
God have mercy on our souls and forgive us. Let us not be barriers to the salvation of souls. I am not America first kinda, it buggs the heck out of me that Franklin Graham thinks becoming a Christian means adopting American culture but I am not afraid of him like you guys are. I can out argue him any day, I can illustrate to people the danger of his philosophy. I don't need governments limiting his speech, I need government making sure I have the same access to get my beliefs out into the market place. I think religious people fear Evangelicals because they lack real faith that there church is the church of Christ, they aren't sure that that the gates of hell won't prevail against their church. Have some balls people and trust in God. What ever you do get out of the way of the evangelist and missionaries in Orthodoxy who do have that faith and are acting on it by sharing Christ through their lives.
St Paul left Athens thinking he hadn't done much but in God's timing Greece became Christian. Right now it needs Christian missionaries from Orthodox churches around the world to fight the secularism that has seduced so much of the old world.
My brothers don't fear the evangelicals or anything this side of heaven. God will provide!!!!
Do you leave bottles of booze around and internet porn sites up because you're so confident that your children can resist temptation? The Greek Orthodox are entirely within their rights in barring evil influence from their home. This flabbergasts you because you're an American who thinks that pluralism is the highest form of social organization.
You're saying that you can't trust the Orthodox laity to be able to sort out truth from false doctrine, and therefore the Church as an institution and the state have to "protect" them from false ideas.
Yes, that is precisely the role of the Church.
What appealed to me, what brought me to Orthodoxy wasn't being right, halting the advance of American imperialism, it was the peace that surpasses all understanding that God's Holy people have. It is that peace that having the Holy Spirit gives you. We don't need to ban evangelicals or "by all means" stop them, we need to acquire the Spirit of peace, something the world does not offer to a world that is in such turmoil. In some areas where we are in agreement with the religious right (I am a classical liberal who desires the eventual supreme monarchy of Christ) we need to fight against human trafficking, abortion, etc. Where we can we should work with secular humanist. We need to be the salt of the earth. This isn't anything revolutionary, it is Christianity.
Bad comparison anti-Gnostic. I don't think an adult Orthodox believer is like a minor who needs to be protected by its parent. The Church protects me as its (adult) and rational child because I voluntarily submit to its authority. I freely came in because I think it's true, and I can freely leave if I want to. I am not arguing whether pluralism is the highest form of social organization. I am appealing to the freedom of the conscience and the dignity of the human being to choose the one of the most fundamental things about the self-how one approaches God. I am also appealing to the fact that Orthodoxy is TRUE, and since it is, it does not need to defend itself as if it is some weak thing that can be brought down by some American evangelicals. If it is that in Greece, then we've already lost the people. I want our people to be Orthodox because it's true and because they know it is-not because some structure wants to preserve "Greek culture." We should be more concerned about the sexual scandals our own clergy have been implicated in. That will run more people out of the Church than some American Protestants.
I am also appealing to the fact that Orthodoxy is TRUE, and since it is, it does not need to defend itself as if it is some weak thing that can be brought down by some American evangelicals.
The Church has always acted vigorously and affirmatively against heretics.
If it is that in Greece, then we've already lost the people. I want our people to be Orthodox because it's true and because they know it is-not because some structure wants to preserve "Greek culture."
Do you think infants know the truth of Baptism or Communion? And are they not under Christ's grace despite their lack of any knowing choice? Does the act of adult conversion mean you have received greater grace than somebody blessed with parents and extended family who cared enough to hedge them about with the Faith as a very part of their cultural milieu?
And how does it follow from your statement that Greeks must let American evangelicals into their Orthodox homeland to proselytize for heresy? Greece is the home of the Greeks and their Orthodox Church. Americans need to grow up and realize that the world is not a giant shopping mall where they have some sort of entitlement to entry.
I am appealing to the freedom of the conscience and the dignity of the human being to choose the one of the most fundamental things about the self-how one approaches God.
Then you would probably feel more comfortable with the Unitarian-Universalists.
The evangelical missionaries are not complete heretics as alleged by some here.
They believe in the Trinity, in the Resurrection, the Virgin Birth and other key aspects of Holy Orthodoxy.
They provide a starting point for those Greeks who are completely secularized. They provide a spiritual starting point to those who don't know Christ.
From that starting point, these converts to Evangelical "pre-Orthodoxy" can later be brought into the fulness of the faith.
My family and I are Orthodox Christians who will be sending some financial support to a young couple attempting to go to Cyprus to evangelize there.
This young couple came out of an evangelical church that split. Half of this church became Orthodox, and half of this church remained Evangelical.
By being supportive and sympathetic to this young couple, we as an Orthodox family keep the doors open for them to consider Holy Orthodoxy down the road.
Orthodox relations with Evangelicals must be subtle: Wise as serpents and innocent as doves.
As Christ plainly said: Those who are not against Him are for Him.
Pray for such missionaries and engage them positively. You might find them converts after a season.
I doubt David has any direct experience with these wolves and antichrists of "evangelicals" work in any Orthodox country.
I have seen them: they are cunning, lying and bribing .
Yes, and even good, pious, but otherwise uneducated faithful sometimes fell prey to their consumeristic faith.
I have heard them blaspheming against the Mother of God and the icons in front of Orthodox peasants. They could not really engage them, since they didn't have to deal with such before.
The most a relative of mine could say to a very insistent evangelical/baptist heretic was "I want to be buried like a human, but you bury people as if they were dogs."
@tentmaker,
You help those people to lead Orthodox people astray.
That is all you do.
Teena, I agree with you. I am an Orthodox convert (catechumen) -- and I live in the American South. Most evangelicals I know are people who love the Lord as much as they are able, and yes, they believe in the fundamentals contained in the Creed. They don't understand (as most of us converts did not understand at first) many things about Orthodoxy, but their goal is to help people towards faith in Christ.
And I am a signer of the Manhattan Declaration, as are other members of my parish. Some Orthodox outside the US don't seem to understand the situation we are facing in this country.
Some of the attitudes I see expressed in these comments are shockingly harsh.
anti-gnostic:
No, infants and small children do not have less grace than me. As a matter of fact, I would consider it a great privilege to have been raised Orthodox, as I am raising my son. It is the job of parents and the church to guide and protect children. Adult children of the church are children, but they are adult children. I don't want them to become heretics, which I think these evangelicals are. I have no problem with the Church fighting heresy, that is one of its jobs. The question is how they fight it. My point was and is that I don't think trying to deny people access to certain ideas is a very good way to do it, nor an effective way. I also question taking advantage of the freedom in this country to make Orthodox and then to suggest that Orthodox countries should prevent the same efforts by others. As I said earlier, this is the classic strategy that Muslims use to prevent their people from coming to Christ. I want Orthodox to remain Orthodox. The issue is what is decent and fitting in the efforts to make this possible. I am offended that you would suggest I should be a Unitarian. I became Orthodox because I think it is the Church founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ. You have not explained why the fact that I believe this should lead me to support censoring and banning people who disagree with me. If the majority of Orthodox in Greece don't want what these evangelicals are offering, then what's the problem? If they do want it (God forbid) then the gov't and church's efforts to ban these people will be seen as a craven desire to hang onto power, as opposed to being concerned about the Gospel. Tentmaker: I would disagree with you about giving money to Protestants so they can try to lead Orthodox away. To allow them to speak is not the same as paying for their efforts. They may not formally be heretics, but they hold heretical views. I also would not have supported signing the Manhattan Declaration. Finally, I would love to know how respecting the freedom of another person's conscience makes me fit for Unitarianism rather than Orthodoxy. One of our saints famously said, "There is no coercion in God."
Man oh man, a lot of these people like CNI sound like a bunch of communists! 'The state is to rule the people and the church is part of the state.' I know the Greeks here in the USA, they are cultural Orthodox, caring more about being "GREEK" than being "Christian" or "Orthodox'. They are ignorant for the most part and don't care that they are. Ever go to a 'Greek Festival'? You won't find anything there about Orthodoxy or Christianity. You'll find the gods and goddesses of Mt Olympus not the Saints and monks of Mt. Athos. I hope the evangelicals give them a good scare-they need one!
I have been to a number of Greek festivals and have never seen anything about gods or goddesses - I have seen icons, church tours, and Byzantine chant, plus a ton of food food and some ethnic dressware. Having said that I think if you did see that you are fully in the right to start overturning some tables...
Perhaps for some of us the Church is coextensive with our family and our ancestors, so, we would care more about cultural aspects of Orthodoxy than recent American converts that , some of whom send money to the evangelical propagandists in Cyprus.
See, the faith was not handed down to us by books on bookshelves, but by people in Greece, in Cyprus and elsewhere.
CNI
Of course your faith was handed down by people, and lucky you are that it was. But just imagine, and this is the point I keep trying to get across, if I wanted to become Orthodox and discovered that my society kept out Orthodox missionaries out of fear that I would accept some "strange and exotic" form of Christianity? Suppose I was a Muslim and wanted to convert and was accused of cooperating with foreign cultural imperialism? Is this point so hard to understand? I'm not saying I want Greeks to stop being Orthodox-I would like them to be even more Orthodox. I would never send money to Protestants for use in trying to convert Orthodox. I happen to be highly unecumenical
frankly. I think these evangelicals are wrong. That's not the question. The question is whether the answer to the problem is to get the gov't and a state funded Church to try to prevent them from evangelizing, all while we allow Elder Ephrem to come to the US and set up Greek speaking Athonite monasteries (which I am fine with). It's about fairness, it's about respect for people's consciences-it's not about denying that you think they're wrong. Error has no rights-but people who make errors do. I want the freedom to be Orthodox-how can I try to deny others the freedom to be something else if they want to be?
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