Rattled by Pope Francis’s admonishment to Catholics not to be “obsessed” by doctrine, his stated reluctance to judge gay priests and his apparent willingness to engage just about anyone — including atheists — many conservative Catholics are doing what only recently seemed unthinkable:Read the rest here.
They are openly questioning the pope.
Concern among traditionalists began building soon after Francis was elected this spring. Almost immediately, the new pope told non-Catholic and atheist journalists he would bless them silently out of respect. Soon after, he eschewed Vatican practice and included women in a foot-washing ceremony.
The wary traditionalists became critical when, in an interview a few weeks ago, Francis said Catholics shouldn’t be “obsessed” with imposing doctrines, including on gay marriage and abortion. Then earlier this month, Francis told an atheist journalist that people should follow good and fight evil as they “conceive” of them. These remarks followed an interview with journalists this summer aboard the papal airplane in which the pope declared that it is not his role to judge someone who is gay “if they accept the Lord and have goodwill.”
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8 comments:
Washington Post trying to spread dissension and upset within the Church.
Ignore it, we should recognize its ultimate source
True, and at the same time the chickens are coming home to roost. Traddies have long struggled with Papal authority; it was wonderful thing when it wasn't their ox getting gored, but when it is, how do you reconcile it without slipping into a collective cognitive dissonance?
Reminds me of the folks that AA calls "enablers", people who enable the addiction of the AA member. In the same way, Traddies "enable" the ultimate destruction of the great liturgical patrimony of the West by clinging to the Vatican I concept of the Papacy. If the Pope is the ultimate authority, who can stop him? Yeah, I know Bellarmine said a wacko Pope ceases to be Pope when he veers off course, but in RC understanding of the Church, who has the authority to call it a veer? Only the Pope. Now that kind of circular reasoning would drive anyone a little batty. And you know that Pope isn't going to call himself out. Paul VI told Lefebrve that pretty directly.
I didn’t know Francis was that bad. My guess is my first assumption about him was right, that he’s libcaths’ last laugh; another Paul VI. But he’s old; they’re dying out. My second thought was what Andrei said.
It’s ultimately about church infallibility; the only real difference between Orthodoxy and Catholicism is the latter believes that the papal office, not the man holding it, has the gift of infallibility when it reaffirms the faith of the church. The teachings of the church are available for all to read, especially with the Internet.
Traddies "enable" the ultimate destruction of the great liturgical patrimony of the West by clinging to the Vatican I concept of the Papacy.
See above, and the answer for committed Catholics is not to join a church that really thinks the Western patrimony is a fraud (prelest, etc.). We don’t say that about the Orthodox tradition.
the only real difference between Orthodoxy and Catholicism is the latter believes that the papal office, not the man holding it, has the gift of infallibility when it reaffirms the faith of the church.
Yes, and the faith of the Church is determined by the bishops in council. And since the Pope can't contravene that, he really is just first among equals and has no jurisdiction in other Patriarchates. Now, all you have to do is point this out to the Vatican and the schism is healed and you don't have to spend the rest of your career obsessing over this.
AG (luv the photo btw - best in the blogosphere) -
In the RC Church, the Pope does have jurisdiction over the other Patriarchates. And he doesn't need the bishops in council.
Granted, it would be great if the RC church did NOT embrace these innovations. But there it is. If wishes were horses and all that.
I am a so- called conservative Catholic, and yes the media is trying to misconstruct Pope Francis.
He is doctrinally Orthodox.
I understand their concerns, but both sides have been caught up in the culture wars for far too long, blaming each other.
He knows that unless the church cleans up its own act, the world is not going to take it seriously.
It's a collective call to conversion, on all sides.
Will liberals just focus on their own politics, or will they accept this, remains to be seen.
The conservative displeasure is real. Washing the feet of muslims and women was the bad start. Sixites liberalism is dead in the Catholic Church but so is culture war conservatism. Talk to some young people (don't bother with church; you won't find them there). There is a neo-liberalism developing.
Or better, read Professor Charles Murray's new book "Coming Apart." It will explain where we are heading.
The conservative displeasure is real. Washing the feet of muslims and women was the bad start. Sixites liberalism is dead in the Catholic Church but so is culture war conservatism. Talk to some young people (don't bother with church; you won't find them there). There is a neo-liberalism developing.
Or better, read Professor Charles Murray's new book "Coming Apart." It will explain where we are heading.
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