Sunday, May 08, 2011

Ecumenical Idiocy

Two news stories via T-19...
ROME (CNS) -- Because the Roman Catholic Church was a driving force behind the development of a common English translation of basic prayers used by many Christian churches for 40 years, more recent Vatican rules for translating Mass prayers "came as a bombshell," said an Anglican liturgist.

"I do not contest for a moment the prerogative of churches to change their liturgical texts," said the Rev. David Holeton, a professor at Charles University in Prague.

But he said other Christians were "both stunned and dismayed" when the Vatican abandoned the English texts of prayers Catholics had developed with them since the Second Vatican Council and when the Vatican discouraged Catholics from consulting ecumenically on the new translations.
Read the rest here
See my response here.

And this...
In a scene you don’t see every day at an Episcopal church, 30 Muslims knelt in prayer behind the altar at St. Mark’s Cathedral on Saturday, with a Christian cross as backdrop.

It was a break in “Confronting Islamophobia,” a conference that dissected false images of and prejudice against Muslims, but also heard their critics stereotyped and labeled.

The Yin and Yang were represented in two keynote speakers at the conference, sponsored by about 40 Muslim, Christian and pro-Palestinian groups, even by Jewish Voice for Peace
Read the rest here.

12 comments:

Young fogey emeritus said...

It's one of history's nasty ironies that Roman Catholics were the driving force behind low-churchifying liturgical English (Thomas Day explained why: 'spite the English' meets Modernism) so I can understand the Anglicans' confusion. But Rome is returning to her true self, orthodox and high liturgically, correcting the Vatican II mistakes. Of course a one true church (Rome is not a denomination) would unilaterally work on texts and besides, the Anglicans aren't interested in old high liturgical English any more.

And yes, the well-meant indifferentist show of those mainliners only demeans them to the Muslims (one true faiths aren't impressed by such imitations) and almost everybody else.

Anonymous said...

The Protestants rejected the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and called it an abomination. The reformers tried to get it banned wherever they could. People gave their lives to preserve this.

Why are the Protestants shocked that Catholics are actually Catholics?

Yes, there's been a backdoor stealth attempt to get the church to abandon the Liturgy.

But, we are back on track.

Savvy

Young fogey emeritus said...

Why are the Protestants shocked that Catholics are actually Catholics?

The mainliners are shocked now because so many English-speaking Catholics have been thinking and acting like Protestants for 40 years.

Anonymous said...

Fogey,

I don't disagree. The Vatican 2 documents, however do not sanction what took place in it's wake. It was hijacked.

None of these people are able to prove their point from the documents itself.

There's a general unwillingness to understand a religion on it's own terms.

The response is usually accusing, us of persecuting them, for entertaining new ideas.


Savvy

Richard Barrett said...

Sadly, as a former Seatttleite, as soon as I saw "St. Mark's" I knew exactly where the story was taking place...

Anonymous said...

Actually the "reform" was much closer to the "original" liturgy than the Tridentine or neo-tridentine liturgy the Vatican is now trying to impose.

Ad....your liturgical ignorance is appaling but then perhaps you see liturgy as a political act which explains your lack of comprehension.

bob said...

The thing that used to be a cathedral in Seattle is pretty regularly used as a mosque. The Muslim speaker *calls* it one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DU0oSU9OXY

Any questions?

Anonymous said...

Anon,

"Actually the "reform" was much closer to the "original" liturgy than the Tridentine or neo-tridentine liturgy the Vatican is now trying to impose."

How so?

Why should the Orthodox and Catholics be forced to be Protestant?

You have some gall to claim that establishing a Catholic liturgy is somehow imposition.

Savvy

Anonymous said...

Anon,

Have you actually read the V2 documents on the Liturgy?


Savvy

Anonymous said...

What's the fixation on Protestantism? Wxactly what is Protestant about liturgy?

Anonymous said...

Anon,

Please read Sacrosanctum Concilium.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19631204_sacrosanctum-concilium_en.html


Savvy

David said...

As a former Seattleite, I too instantly knew the cathedral in question. What a shame; I have so many fond memories of Sunday night Complines there.