Sunday, August 09, 2009

A very good post on the Orthodox Church by a Roman Catholic.

Roman Catholic blogger Teófilo de Jesús writes...
Orthodox Christians consider the differences between the Orthodox and the Roman Catholic Churches as both substantial and substantive, and resent when Catholics trivialize them. Though they recognize that both communions share a common “Tradition” or Deposit of Faith, they will point out that the Roman Catholic Church has been more inconsistently faithful – or more consistently unfaithful – to Tradition than the Orthodox Church has been in 2000 years of Christian history. Generally, all Orthodox Christians would agree, with various nuances, with the following 12 differences between their Church and the Catholic Church. I want to limit them to 12 because of its symbolic character and also because it is convenient and brief:
Read his list here.

As far as the list goes there is not much that is a source for heartburn. I could add to it and I would have given different emphasis to various topics. And yes, I think there are a few points where some amplification would not be out of order. But in the end I think this is a reasonably accurate and remarkably irenic post.


Unknown said...

Many thanks for this, John! Have a blessed Dormition fast!

Teófilo de Jesús said...

Thank you for the link! I am honored at the level of attention that the post has garnered and I yearn for the day that we can grow in Christ together.

To my Orthodox brethren visiting my site, I welcome you as Christ.


Anonymous said...

If the papists see their differences with the Orthodox as unimportant, they just have to abandon their positions on those differences and adopt the Orthodox ones.

John (Ad Orientem) said...

The term "papist" is a pejorative which use is almost always considered rude and offensive particularly to Roman Catholics. Please be mindful of the sensibilities of others and confine yourself to more standard terms when posting comments. Polite people refer to others by the name which they prefer to be known by.


Anonymous said...

I find the term papist to be as much pejorative as the term lutheran, that is not at all.
Besides I adressed my comment to you and not to the papists so as to take into account their sensibilities.

Now, according to your politeness principle we must not refer to heretics as such but as truthful because that's the name they prefer for themselves and refer to the Pope as infallible because he fancies so. How can I call someone catholic when I do not believe that he has the whole of the truth? How can I call a usurper of a king's title as king and how can I call Catholic the institution which usurps the title of the Orthodox one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church? And what do I really offer to the usurper apart from an empty showing off of manners when I flatter his complacency?

Remember that the term christian started as a pejorative one. If the Papists really feel proud to have as their leader the Pope they shouldn't feel offended when they are referred to as such.

At any rate, you know that you can always delete my comments. I do not mind. It is your own blog.


Teófilo de Jesús said...

The perhaps we Papists should call you rude. Hey, it is a pejorative I know. But with time you may come to like it, even turn it into a badge of honor.

Ephesians 4:30-32 comes to mind.


Anonymous said...


It is not a matter of time. When a papist calls me rude for calling him a papist I am already honoured because he exposes thus his own discomfort with his papism.

And I am sure that your Pope would call Christ rude when He was calling the Pharisees hypocrites. Therefore I am not surprised.

As about your quoting, sorry but I do not buy it. I know your methods.


John (Ad Orientem) said...

Apparently I was not sufficiently clear in my previous comment. Allow me to correct that deficiency.

Although phrased as a request, politeness is not optional when commenting on this blog. (See the guidelines for commenting linked in the sidebar.) Your comments are offensive... to me. You openly disregarded a firmly worded request by the owner of this blog and your most recent comments make it clear that you are just here to stir up trouble.

I don't know about you, but I have never once met anyone who was converted by deliberately insulting them.

Regarding your arguments they are specious at best. You obviously do not grasp what the term pejorative means. It is a term that is understood to be offensive by broader society as well as the group to which it is directed. Comparing the term "Lutheran" and "papist" is so absurd that you are either insulting the intelligence of everyone reading this blog or your own. I suspect the former but am not dismissing the latter possibility. In the end though, I AM THE FINAL ARBITER OF WHAT IS AND IS NOT OFFENSIVE HERE. Your opinion is neither here nor there.

I don't know how long you have been Orthodox or what jurisdiction/parish you belong to. Your comments have a tone that I normally associate with certain schismatic sects though I am sorry to say I have met a (mercifully) few people outside of those groups who act and speak in the same manner. In any event the point is moot.

My rules for posting here are not open for debate. One does not walk into someone else's house and insult them. You have abused the hospitality of my blog. In closing, I must regrettably ask you to refrain from posting here in the future until/unless you are prepared to abide by my rules for commenting. Should you choose to post a comment, the first line should be an apology.

I hope you will respect this and not force me to screen comments before allowing them to appear.


John (Ad Orientem) said...

Theo & all,
I apologize for the rude comments posted. All I can say is that we have our wing nuts just like most other religious groups. If there is any more of this nonsense I will start deleting posts and put comments on moderation.

Under the mercy,